Arizona Secretary of State Tries Unsuccessfully to Obtain President Obama's Birth Certificate from Hawaii

Talking Points Memo has obtained, via a state Freedom of Information Act, a chain of communications between Arizona Secretary of State Ken Bennett, and various Hawaii officials, over whether Bennett may obtain a copy of President Obama’s birth certificate. Here is the chain of e-mails. As one can read, Hawaii refused his request. Talking Points Memo does not say whether it used Hawaii’s Freedom of Information Act, or Arizona’s Freedom of Information Act, to get this exchange. Chances are it is the Arizona Freedom of Information Act. Thanks to Rick Hasen for the link.

24 comments

  1. bruuno · · Reply

    After Bennett apologized for embarrassing AZ with his behavior Hawaii sent the info he wanted.
    http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/hawaii-verifies-obamas-birth-for-arizona-secretary-of

  2. TrueFoe · · Reply

    Any chance we can convince Arizona to secede? I really think they’d be happier on their own.

  3. Doremus Jessup · · Reply

    OK, So how obvious can this be? Sudden turnaround for Bennett is a clear indication that he was threatened with being Breitbarted.

  4. Joshua · · Reply

    What does being Breitbarted mean in this context? I assume it’s a reference to the late Andrew Breitbart and his web sites, but I don’t know what it means as a verb.

  5. bruuno · · Reply

    Doremus- You are staggeringly crazy.
    Joshua- It is the conspiracy theory that Breitbart was murdered by Obama. Because, you know, that terrifying video tape he had of Obama giving the introduction speech to that professor back in the very early 1990s that absolutely no one cared about and had been online through NPR for 4 years.

  6. Demo Rep · · Reply

    Natural born = AT BIRTH ALLEGIANCE to a nation-state regime.

    Naturalization = Change in ALLEGIANCE AFTER BIRTH.

    Place of birth means ZERO.

    Nation-State status of father controls the new kid’s status.

    Sorry – TOTAL male domination in 1776-1868 (and thousands of years before 1776 – except perhaps in Amazons land).

    Much too difficult for the usual suspect constitutional law / legal history MORONS to understand.

    Thus – is Obama even a U.S.A. citizen of any type ???

    Do ONLY the 50 sovereign States have *standing* to enforce the Prez qualification clause in Art. II ???

    Who has *standing* to enforce the qualification sections for State officers in State Constitutions ???

    Is the U.S.A. Constitution de facto New Age D-E-A-D ??? —

    such that the Stone Age Law of the JUNGLE is back in force — might makes right ???

  7. bruuno · · Reply

    You ever wonder why no one pays attention to you Demo Rep? It is because of babbling nonsense like your #6 post.

  8. Doremus Jessup · · Reply

    @Joshua: Breitbarted = the new Arkancided. Wake up and take a serious look at the death trail from the Clinton administration. Same thing here.

  9. TrueFoe · · Reply

    9 –

    Can anyone hike the Clinton Death Trail, or is a permit needed from the Department of the Interior?

  10. bruuno · · Reply

    Yes because there is no other explanation for a man with a heart disease, history of heavy drug and alcohol use and 60% narrowing of his artery dying of a heart attack.

  11. Demo Rep · · Reply

    # 7 Perhaps folks with brains learn something ??? — unlike many of the pre-school constitutional law juveniles on this list.

    Still waiting for some genius to answer the questions in # 6.

  12. Joshua · · Reply

    #11 Demo Rep: Okay, I’ll start. “Thus — is Obama even a U.S.A. citizen of any type ???” Yes, he is, because he was born in Hawaii.

    Your assumption that place of birth is irrelevant and that the nationality of Barack Obama Sr. determined his son’s citizenship at birth is incorrect. See U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark (1898).

    I see that you had some other questions, but I will let someone else answer them.

  13. bruuno · · Reply

    There is an endless list of Supreme Court cases which refute absolutely every claim you make. There are ZERO that back yours up. And quite frankly some of your ‘questions’ are completely nonsensical and unanswerable since what you are saying is undecipherable.

  14. Nick Kruse · · Reply

    We are over 3 years into Obama’s presidency. Can people please give this issue a rest??

  15. Demo Rep · · Reply

    # 12 Once upon a time racial segregation was quite OK — Plessy v. Ferguson (circa 1896) — by about the same genius folks who put out Wong Kim Ark a bit later.

    Plessy was over-ruled in Brown v. Bd of Ed 1954.

    SCOTUS cases in all sorts of legal subject areas are basically worthless due to WRONG classifications, brain dead ignorance of political history, etc. — due in major part to LAZY lawyers in whole series of cases — i.e. who build more junk on earlier junk cases.

    See the classic stuff about alleged *federal common law* from 1842 to 1938 — ended as being UN-constitutional in the Erie R.R. case (due in part to some new research).

    NOTHING quite like the New Age CLOSED MIND — ALL so certain about DEFECTIVE SCOTUS cases.

  16. Demo Rep · · Reply

    What about ship wrecked highly pregnant foreign folks – who survive a ship wreck and have a kid born on the shoreline ???

    Also of course armed enemy invaders – think Japanese invasion of various U.S.A. islands in WW II — bringing their sex slaves with them (some perhaps giving birth) and/or raping American women.

    Such kids were of what nation-state status ???

    Same with New Age mini-armies of highly pregnant foreign females voluntarily or IN-voluntarily entering into the U.S.A. — aka illegal immigrants — i.e. also invaders (even if NOT armed) — Art. I, Sec. 10.

    Plus all of the above in reverse regarding pregnant American women in a foreign nation – in peacetime or wartime.

    Nothing quite like the New Age lack of thinking about BASIC legal classifications.

    See one more example — the EVIL insane national debt due to EVIL economics since 1929.

  17. Tom Yager · · Reply

    Cut the crap, Arizona. You know that Obama has already released his birth certificate.

  18. Demo Rep · · Reply

    Also – students of the 4 July 1776 DOI can note the words in brackets —

    We, therefore, the Representatives of the *United* States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these *United* Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; [[[ that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved;]]] and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
    —-
    i.e. Folks loyal to the DOI became REVOLUTION State Citizens in the 13 States – with their kids.

    Their kids born on and after 4 July 1776 became NBC of each State (and thus of the U.S.A.).

    Different naturalization laws in each State in 1776-1789.

    The kids of the natualized State citizens became NBC of each State (and thus of the U.S.A.).

    Uniform naturalization laws in ALL of the U.S.A. starting in 1790 — see the oath taken by new naturalized U.S.A. citizens — revoking ALL allegiance to any foreign nation-state — with major felony stuff for lying about such oath.

    i.e. a pyramid — geneology chart of ALLEGIANCE — fathers to kids.

    Everybody else is a foreign alien – tourists, business folks, students, illegal immigrants, etc. — who have NO ALLEGIANCE to the U.S.A. government.
    —-
    Even American Indian tribal folks were deemed to be foreign folks for citizenship purposes.

    I.E. see the two major American Indian naturalization laws in 1924 and 1940.

    I.E. how many alleged Electors-Voters are LEGAL U.S.A. citizens in the 50 States and D.C. ???

    OR – what U.S.A. citizen male in your family graph made you a U.S.A. citizen ???

    — going back to 4 July 1776 for some folks — but mostly via naturalized U.S.A. citizens since 1789 — Great grandparents, grandparents, etc.

  19. Ad Hoc · · Reply

    I thought “breitbarted” had something to do with “retarded”?

  20. Jim Riley · · Reply

    #1 The last e-mail from Hawaii Deputy Attorney General Nagamine was May 19, saying she couldn’t figure out how the Arizona statutes applied.

    The news article you linked to has an announcement from the Hawaii AG’s office dated May 22.

    That article links to another article where Bennett says that he had talked to the Hawaii AG (Nagamine’s boss) on Monday night (the 21st). Bennett said that he had “reworded” his request and expects to receive a response “in the next 24 to 48 hours” (by the 22 to 23).

    So do you think that the Secretary of State added an apology to his request, and the Hawaii AG then construed that apology to indicate compliance with Hawaii law? Or more likely, the Hawaii AG and the Arizona SOS agreed to wording, that would get the information that Bennett had legitimately requested, without embarrassing Nagamine.

  21. bruuno · · Reply

    #20- Nagamine wasn’t the one in danger of being embarrassed

  22. Demo Rep · · Reply

    And of course there is the first sentence of 14th Amdt, Sec. 1–

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.


    IF ANY kid who was physically born in the U.S.A. was automatically a citizen of the U.S. (according to land birther fanatics), then why have the *and subject to the jurisdiction thereof* language ???

    Answer for dummies – esp. SCOTUS super-dummies – *subject to the jurisdiction thereof* = having ALLEGIANCE to the U.S.A. via the kid’s father being a U.S.A. citizen.

    See the 1866 debates on the sentence in the Congressional Globe in the U.S.A. Senate.

    The sentence was added to void the infamous SCOTUS opinion in Dred Scott v. Sanford in 1857 — i.e. to have ALL blacks, free and ex-slave, having an ALLEGIANCE to the U.S.A. Constitution, become U.S.A. citizens.

  23. Jim Riley · · Reply

    #21 The Hawaii AG and Arizona SOS handled it professionally. The Hawaii AG could have just said his assistant was a nitwit. But he and Bennett found a way for Arizona to get the information they requested.

    Let’s read the what the AG offices press release said:

    “We have received information from Secretary Bennett that satisfied our requirements, and have therefore provided his office with a verification of birth for President Obama.”

    The May 17 e-mail had provided information. The May 19 e-mail said they weren’t sure it was what they needed. Bennett could have guessed and gone through another round of e-mails. He called the AG up and said what do you need, and the AG must have told him.

    Since Bennett “reworked” his request, and got a response, and a press release issued within 24 hours, it couldn’t have been a major change.

    The Hawaii AG could simply have overrode the assistant AG, but this way it makes Nagamine feel like she was just being careful. After all, she didn’t reject the information, but was saying something about “official lists”.

  24. bruuno · · Reply

    #23- You just don’t get it, do you?

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